AnCan’s Brains Trust Review Very Recent Seminal Prostate Cancer Work
A couple of weeks ago a prospective seminal paper was published in Nature . Of course, you don’t know if a paper is seminal until it is considered and acclaimed, but this paper is already getting plaudits.
It wouldn’t be the first time some of the paper’s authors have been acclaimed. Back in 2018 several of ‘the usual suspects’, Drs. Small, Aggarwal, Feng, Chi et al published a work in ASCO’s respected Journal of Clinical Oncology. I had first heard about that hypothesis some 3 years earlier at a UCSF Prostate Cancer Research Retreat where Eric Small suggested that advanced prostate cancer morphs into a small cell/neuroendocrine like form as the disease progresses. The significance of this current paper brought the earlier one to mind.
So what is the revelation from this new opus. Well first a tip off – it was published in Nature! That immediately indicates that you need a science background, and maybe even a PhD to even understand the abstract. Not surprisingly, it left me cold so I reached out to our AnCan PCa Brains Trust for a better understadning. Herb Geller and Ben Nathanson independently took the time to reveiw and summarize their understanding in easy-to-understand, patient lingo … and that’s what is presented below.
Oh … and the revelation as I understand it – that in time liquid biopsies will allow us to better define and personally tailor hormone therapy for each man.
Prof. Herb Geller sees this paper clearly identifying that the sum of the parts as greater than the whole ….
Current clinical practice depends upon traditional measures such as serum PSA and scans to stage prostate cancer and determine treatment protocols. More recently, liquid biopsies (from analyzing a blood sample) have begun to provide more information about mutations and cancer progression.
A new paper in Nature from a large group of clinicians and scientists takes the use of liquid biopsies to the next level through the use of whole-genome sequencing and samples taken over time to provide a more detailed picture of cancer progression in metastatic castration resistant prostate cancer (mCRPC) and compare that picture with a similar analysis of a biopsied metastatic site.
One result is that the liquid biopsy can provide a more detailed picture than the surgical biopsy. For example, they find, through the use of sophisticated analytical techniques, that the liquid biopsy shows that different metastatic sites have different mutations, and that sequential liquid biopsies can trace the evolution of the cancer within each site and how it contributes to overall progression. This is in contrast to current methods which only look at the aggregate.
Two observations are of particular interest. One is that they can follow the contribution of the individual sites to cancer progression. Given that some sites may have specific mutations, this may suggest precision treatment protocols that are tailored to each mutation, either separately or in combination. The second is that, while there are many different mutations associated with prostate cancer, they reaffirm that the major driver of cancer progression is the androgen receptor, suggesting, in their view, medicine needs to keep finding new ways to suppress AR signalling.
The overall impact of this paper is that it provides methods that can be implemented more generally. The major current impediments are the cost of whole-genome sequencing, which is decreasing exponentially, and the computational power needed to do the analysis. However, given the huge potential for providing clinical insights, we should expect to see these methods get implemented at major cancer centers.
Ben Nathanson thinks this paper will open the door for Game Theory to play a part in treatment strategy …
A new paper in Nature allows us to witness the day-to-day evolution of a patient’s cancer as its mutations grow and shrink. This level of knowledge is unprecedented, and it can change the face of research and treatment.
Cancer’s guessing game
A drug trial may yield dozens of failures and one miraculous remission. Hormone therapy is indistinguishable from a cure — then stops working. Though we can investigate cancer down to the molecular level, help unraveling these cases is limited because the molecular data is only a snapshot.
We can see what’s different in the genes of the one exceptional responder, but we struggle to identify which differences were significant — and more importantly, why they mattered. We can inventory the mutations in our castrate-resistant cancer, but have no clue how they evolved and how they might be countered.
Instead of snapshots, we need live-action footage. This work provides it.
The very different makeup of five patients’ cancers and their responses over time. A color indicates a cell population with a unique set of mutations. Plots show the details of each individual’s response. Circled numbers are times at which liquid biopsies were taken; AE numbers are patient IDs. The researchers were able to project back before the first measurement to the very start of the cancer. A lot of information was gained from a few measurements. From Herberts et al., Deep whole-genome ctDNA chronology of treatment-resistant prostate cancer.
Evolution of five cancers
The figure above shows the kind of information yielded up by the new work. Each plot is from a different patient; rises and falls are changes in his PSA. A color indicates a unique cell population with its own set of mutations.
We can see what’s happening in each patient’s cancer to cause those changes in PSA.
Based on liquid biopsies
The Nature paper has a lot to be excited about. The molecular information comes from blood samples — “liquid biopsies” — rather than conventional tissue biopsies. Tissue biopsies are impossible when a tumor is too small or inaccessible, and are time-consuming, require high-level medical expertise, and can be painful. Liquid biopsies just require drawing blood.
Convenience aside, a liquid biopsy contains data from every metastasis, not just one.
Samples can be taken again and again during the course of the disease, tracking its evolution in detail.
Liquid biopsies are already used clinically to find treatable mutations in genes like BRCA2. The new results can turn liquid biopsies into the most revealing tool we have ever had to investigate castrate resistance. Ultimately it can make them the tool of choice for assessing patients and monitoring treatment — a requisite for precision medicine.
Real-time results
The work also can strengthen use of game theory and similar novel strategies to head off resistance. Cancer uses Darwin’s playbook: A mutation that improves survival in a hostile environment allows a cell and its children to dominate. If we continuously deprive a tumor of androgens, cells that need androgens will be replaced by mutations that don’t.
Thus one way to prevent resistance may be to modulate treatment so nascent mutations have no chance to grow. Trials are underway that do this, using PSA to monitor the cancer. We gain an advantage if we can lean over and read cancer’s cards. That’s what the research offers: an opportunity to see mutational populations growing and shrinking in real time.
No new equipment
Another exciting aspect of the work is how little it requires. There’s no special assay, no new machinery, no delicate lab procedure. It needs only a state-of-the-art DNA sequencer and public software.
Thus any lab with a good sequencer can join this effort and expand it in countless directions. Part of the software was designed to fit the data in this specific study, but the authors explain their work, and the results are so compelling that other institutions are likely to help generalize the code.
Biological insights
The authors have already made biological discoveries using their methodology, and these dominate the paper. Most require a deeper knowledge of genomics than I can lay claim to, but at least two bear mentioning.
The research confirmed that the DNA in the liquid biopsies showed more diversity than DNA in comparison tissue biopsies – suggesting that tissue biopsies do indeed reveal only part of the story.
And the work sought to determine for the first time whether genes other than the androgen receptor gene change during androgen deprivation. The AR gene was, in fact, the only gene seen to change in every sample. Their conclusion: As long as ADT remains the backbone of prostate therapy, medicine needs to keep finding new ways to suppress AR signaling.
For now this is a tool for insight rather than treatment. Today, although we can see those colors and know exactly what’s in them, we don’t know what to do about them. There’s much we have to learn about cancer dynamics, but we now have a tool that gives us a front-row seat.
Hi-Risk/Recurrent/Advanced PCa Video Chat, July 18, 2022
All AnCan’s groups are free and drop-in … join us in person sometime! You can find out more about our 12 monthly prostate cancer meetings at https://ancan.org/prostate-cancer/ Sign up to receive a weekly Reminder/Newsletter for this Group or others at https://ancan.org/contact-us/
Editor’s Pick: The clear winner from this very well attended week is MENTAL HEALTH. Anxiety and depression come up multiple times. Gents – please STAY IN THE MOMENT(rd)
Topics Discussed
We welcome Dr. John as a Mod!; tiny changes in ultra, ultra sensitive PSA 7.5 yrs out make this man nervous and turn to dubious supplements; and small changes for this man 8 years post-RP are of concern; layering HT on a history of depression suggests medication; spinal reconstruction surgery appears timely and successful; PCa is stable but fevers a puzzle; blood biospsy ordered; is radaition cystitiis a concern?; UTI puts man in the ER/hospital – GU med onc fails to pay attention!; is ARASENS for me?; NGS shows trifecta of bad actor mutations; annual scans show stability; post-chemo Tx needs review for foamy gland guy; two of our Gents get mild Covid
Chat Log
Larry Fish (to Everyone): 5:57 PM: especially something for the short term at least – as effects of ADT can be so unsettling and problematic, right away.
Stan Friedman (to Everyone): 6:17 PM: Steve, our prayers are with you.
john antonucci (to Everyone): 6:39 PM: sorry guys gotta go early see you tuesday
Frank Fabish – Columbus OH (to Everyone): 6:42 PM: Got to go guys. See you next week.
Mike Yancey (to Everyone): 7:08 PM: Early appointment requiring a lot of miles tomorrow, so need to drop off a bit early. Good call. Thanks for allowing me to provide an update. See you next Tuesday
AnCan – rick (to Peter M): 7:10 PM: Peter – this is high volume mets that Richard shows!!
Stan Friedman (to Everyone): 7:15 PM: Have to go. See all of you online next Tuesday.
Julian Morales – Houston (to Everyone): 7:17 PM: Catch you guys next week – Another good!
Peter M (to Everyone): 7:20 PM: Good night gents!
Geoff (to Everyone): 7:21 PM: Must go. Thank you all!
Jerry Pelfrey – Mexico (to Everyone): 7:23 PM: Good Night Gents
All AnCan’s groups are free and drop-in … join us in person sometime! You can find out more about our 12 monthly prostate cancer meetings at https://ancan.org/prostate-cancer/ Sign up to receive a weekly Reminder/Newsletter for this Group or others at https://ancan.org/contact-us/
Editor’s Pick: If you’re on long term ADT, that cardio system takes a lickin’ but (hopefully) keeps on tickin’! Two Gents get scares this week (rd)
Topics Discussed
Graduate from Low/Intermediate Group gets educated on recurrence; Newbie w. Care Partner learns more about Pluvicto; another new man needs a GU med onc; same again for Gent in Fort Meyers; take care of your heart – check in with cardio onc; does ADT cause rheumatoid arthritis … and leg pains?; snake oil in Pheonix?; aiming for monotherapy darolutamide; give abi time to work; lay-up exacerbates muscle wating with joint replacements in sight.
Chat Log
AnCan – rick (to Everyone): 3:13 PM: We wil be spending time talking about Cardio-Oncology issues tonight.
AnCan – rick (to Everyone): 4:02 PM: Antonarakis, Stuart Bloom
ALFRED LATIMER (Private): 4:42 PM: Rick: Found that cleveland clinic has cardio-oncology here in Weston FL (near FLL). My current cardiologist is at CC. Will discuss this issue with him nextweek. Thx for the tip.
Hi-Risk/Recurrent/Advanced PCa Video Chat, June 20, 2022
Register for our upcoming webinar on June 29 on Genetics & Genomics at https://bit.ly/3QiNvxS
If you’re a Vet, AnCan will be launching a new Vets Group to help navigate medical care. First meeting Thu, June 23, at 8.00 pm Eastern in https://www.gotomeet.me/AnswerCancer. Free and drop-in as always!
All AnCan’s groups are free and drop-in … join us in person sometime! You can find out more about our 12 monthly prostate cancer meetings at https://ancan.org/prostate-cancer/ Sign up to receive a weekly Reminder/Newsletter for this Group or others at https://ancan.org/contact-us/
Editor’s Pick: We bookend this Group Session recalling our dear buddy and LEGEND advocate, Jerry Deans, who died last week (rd)
Topics Discussed
Consider rechallenging germline BRCA with a PARP-I; Next Generation Sequencing options; RT v HT for BCR … when you’ve been radiated 3x already; Peter K’s a rare bird, says Dr. Antonarakis – time for pembro!; Provenge follows Pluvicto; get the FAMILY germline BRCA tested; rd updates us on therapeutic radionuclides; Gary P expreses gratitude on behalf of single men; BCR points to recent SSPORT protocol; Dr. E switches HT protocol for this gent – to make Burning Man an easier trip!
Chat Log (OMG – were you Gent’s quiet this week or what??)
AnCan – rick (to Everyone): 5:10 PM: jturner@flinceresearch.com
Hi-Risk/Recurrent/Advanced PCa Video Chat, June 14, 2022
Register for our upcoming webinar on June 29 on Genetics & Genomics at https://bit.ly/3QiNvxS
If you’re a Vet, AnCan will be launching a new Vets Group to help navigate medical care. First meeting Thu, June 23, at 8.00 pm Eastern in https://www.gotomeet.me/AnswerCancer. Free and drop-in as always!
All AnCan’s groups are free and drop-in … join us in person sometime! You can find out more about our 12 monthly prostate cancer meetings at https://ancan.org/prostate-cancer/ Sign up to receive a weekly Reminder/Newsletter for this Group or others at https://ancan.org/contact-us/
Editor’s Pick: Long term survival with metastatic PCa is this week’s recurring theme (rd)
Topics Discussed
Newbie joins us with Lynch Syndrome; anti-PD1 immuno side effects, MSI – and the swab test for sensitivity; darolutamide monotherapy; brain fog from HT; lung nodules ID’d as PCa; stable, long-trm survivor; supporting non-particpants; care partners extend survival; when’s the right time for Pluvicto?; BIG Pluvicto success
Chat Log
AnCan – rick (to Everyone): 3:09 PM: Peter – I spoke with Alexa today about saving the chat. Evidently it depends on how you join. She will provide an explanation and directions in all our future emails.
George Rovder Arlington VA (to Everyone): 3:41 PM: Thank you Jeff Marchi. I appreciate it and will check it out. George
Len Sierra (to Everyone): 3:49 PM: https://miradx.com/imudx-testing/ The Keytruda test: IMUDX swab test ImuDx Testing Populations Patients with any type of cancer who are being considered for anti-PD1 or anti-PDL1 therapy are eligible for testing. This test predicts the risk of developing immune related adverse events in response to anti-PD1 or anti-PDL1 treatment.
Herb Geller (to Everyone): 3:50 PM: Cardiac toxicity from checkpoing therapy can range from asymptomatic troponin-I elevations to conduction abnormalities of the heart and even fulminant myocarditis. Although rare, myocarditis is a potentially fatal adverse effect of ICI therapy.
George Rovder Arlington VA (to Everyone): 3:54 PM: Thank you all, friends, for the wisdom and kindness. I have to leave early this evening. I will watch the video to see and hear the rest of the discussion. George
Julian Morales – Houston (to Everyone): 3:58 PM: Have to leave, have a conflicting meeting at 6pm.
Ben Nathanson (to Everyone): 4:00 PM: @Richard – ODENZA: A French prospective, randomized, open-label, multicenter, cross-over phase II trial of preference between darolutamide and enzalutamide in men with asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic metastatic castrate-resistant prostate cancer (CRPC) https://meetings.asco.org/abstracts-presentations/201628
Pat Martin (to Everyone): 4:00 PM: Thanks for the info and the links
George A Southiere Jr (to Everyone): 4:04 PM: very correct that most of us have been on multiple treatments that cause”brain fog”would be very difficult to discern. Be very skeptical of Pharmaceutical studies
John Antonucci (to Everyone): 4:08 PM: I just tried to find any paper on monotherapy androgen blockers and came up with zilch
Thomas Jacobsen – CO (to Everyone): 4:43 PM: Have to leave. Thank you everyone.
Russ Strehlow (to Everyone): 4:46 PM: I have to leave also. Thank you
George A Southiere Jr (to Everyone): 4:50 PM: Great meeting everyone, gotta go. Be well all
Richard Wassersug (to Everyone): 5:00 PM: Thank you all. Have to go.
Herb Geller (to Everyone): 5:00 PM: I gotta go as well. See you all next week.
David Muslin (to Everyone): 5:01 PM: Great meeting as always. See you men next Monday night.